We’ve come a long way since the simplistic and almost outdated visual style we once thought to be stop-motion animation. Growing up, I was never a fan of it because it seemed very poorly executed, delivery rigid and unnatural movements. Then, like a swift sword strike, emerges an animation studio that slices through any competitors with ease. LAIKA has singlehandedly created a stop-motion renaissance that started with Coraline and has evolved past anything we thought was possible for the film genre. Their latest project, Kubo and the Two Strings is a feat of wonder that redefines the genre and sets a new standard for stop-motion films everywhere. I sit down and chat with director, animator and LAIKA CEO Travis Knight about his process, the Hollywood casting problem with Asian actors and potential sequels.
Kubo and the Two Strings
Jon Espino: It seems like every film coming out of LAIKA is an escalation, or almost some unspoken challenge to be bigger and better than the last film. Kubo and the Two Strings was definitely no exception.
Travis Knight: Yeah, I think there’s some of that. I think one of the things that defines LAIKA is an inherent creative restlessness in the studio. We always want to challenge ourselves. We’ve not content with just taking it easy. We are always looking to tell new and different kinds of stories, to dive into new genres, to build new worlds, and to explore different aspects to what it means to be human. I think that gets to the core of really what drives us. So because we’ve been in existence for 10 years and because we effectively kept the band together for that whole time, all the key creatives have essentially been there from the start. What it allows us to do is to build on all the artistic and technological innovations that we have to happen in every movie and then we can apply our learnings to the next film, which means we can put our energies to something else. Which is why, in this film, we can do things we could never have imagined a couple films ago. This is by far our most ambitious thing ever.
JE: So does that mean every film will try to be bigger and better than the one before it?
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TK: I don’t know that it will necessarily always be that way. I know that there are a number of films that we’re developing now that are not even remotely as ambitious as this movie in terms of the scale, but they are ambitious in a different way. I also know there is one film in particular that I’m developing that would make this thing seem simple by comparison. So, it kind of goes both ways. What this movie allowed us to do is that once we got through it — it was really challenging since I didn’t know how we were going to do half the stuff half of the time — when we pulled it off, it basically gave me the confidence that we could tell any kind of story, and that’s really exciting and liberating to know that we’re not limited by technique and we can tell big, bold, and imaginative stories.
JE: Knowing the scale needed for Kubo, was it a daunting task going into this as a first time director?
TK: Yes, undoubtedly. You know, I’ve been in animation for 20 years and I’ve done a lot of different things in that period of time. I was a PA, a scheduler, a coordinator, a stop-motion animator. I’ve been a CG animator and a supervising animator. I’ve worked in development and I’ve produced films, and I’ve run a company. The totality of that experience was really the only reason I could have taken on this task because it the challenges in front of us for this movie were mammoth. The interesting thing about being a director, specifically on a film like this, is that I tapped into every one of those experiences that I had at different points in my career. There are so many different aspects of what I’ve done that prepared me for this role. Even still, this was by far the hardest thing I’ve ever had to do, but it was also the most exhilarating and creatively satisfying experience of my whole career.
JE: So you would do it again?
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TK: Without question. I do need a little time to recover.
JE: I can only imagine. I read it took about 5 years to complete Kubo.
TK: From the moment we started developing it until now, it’s been about 5 years. The actual production time when we were shooting was more about 2 years. A MERE 2 years. The pace of these things is glacial
JE: I’ve unwittingly volunteered to help my animator friends before with some of their stop-motion projects and I still remember how much of a long and almost tedious process it is, especially if you want the animation to flow smoothly.
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TK: It’s so slow, but because of how we [LAIKA] make films, we put primacy on the beginning part of the process, where the execution of it where you’re shooting it is “fun” but the early part of the process is critical when you’re defining the story and characters, and you’re building the world.
JE: It’s the backbone of the film.
TK: Exactly. Without any of it, it would just topple over.
JE: Like you said earlier, you’ve had experience with many of the moving pieces that it takes to make a film. As a wearer of many hats, how do you think that has influenced your approach as a CEO when compared to other CEOs?
TK: When you look broadly at our industry, it’s rare to find an artist at the head of a company. When you look at show business, it really is “show” and “business”. It’s art and commerce. It really shouldn’t be so rare, but it is exceedingly rare. I think our shop is interesting because everyone there wears a lot of hats. We really don’t have “professional managers” in the place. It’s really mostly artists that have elevated to the top of their field and taken that next step into management and guiding teams. That makes all of our managers working-managers who are getting into the trenches with everybody else and creating things with their hands while sweating the details. That’s true for me as well. Being an artist has made me a better leader, and being a leader has made me a better artist. Having one foot in each world really helps me as an artist and as a leader.
JE: Do you think more CEOs should take on a similar hand-on approach in their companies?
TK: I don’t think it would hurt. I think that the person at the top of a ship should know more about the daily lives of the people that they’re leading. It’s a humbling experience to be surrounded by so many creative people. I love the daily interaction I am able to have with them both as an artist and as a leader. It definitely makes me a better leader.
The Future of LAIKA
JE: I’ve noticed a recurring trend in LAIKA films where they are more coming-of-age period pieces. Is there any other period or civilization you’re looking forward to visiting?
TK: Undoubtedly. The thing I love about animation is that you’re always building these entire worlds. Nothing exists, and it’s all just a notion and ideas. By the time you get to the end of it, these things physically exist. We’ve brought these things to life with our hands. It’s a fully lived in and realized world and I just love that. There are so many different stories I want to tell, so many different worlds I want to explore and so many different genres I want to dive into. Animation is a very powerful visual medium that we can use to basically tell any kind of story. I love the potential of what you can do in animation, and it’s so sad to see that so much of it is all the same. It’s one of the reasons that we’re not even remotely interested in making sequels. We make original stories, so once we’re done with a story and the characters, that’s out final statement on the story and that character. That’s why that very last frame in the movie is so bittersweet for me.
JE: Just like the end of a good book.
TK: Yeah, it’s depressing slightly. It’s great because we give it out to the world and now it belongs to the world, but there is something that’s deeply sad about it as well. When I think about the films that we are going to be developing in the next couple of years, it excites me to know just how different they are. People are really going to be surprised. If people think they’ve got LAIKA pegged and they think they know what kind of movies we make, I think they’ll be surprised down the road.
JE: I know it takes a long time to create one of these films, but I read that LAIKA is planning on releasing a film every year.
TK: That’s the ultimate goal. In fact, this film and the next marks the first time we’ve actually overlapped physical production of two films. So while we were still shooting Kubo, the next film was ramping up and we were shooting that as well. We’ve never done that before.
JE: Will you also be directing the next film or at least helping in the animation department?
TK: Oh god, no! I will definitely animate on it and I’m producing it, but there’s only so much of me to go around. This film wrecked me, but there will definitely be more films in the future that I will direct. The goal is to put out one film a year, so we really have to work hard to find ways to be more efficient, but I think in about 5 years we’ll get on that cycle.
Voice Casting and the Hollywood Diversity Problem
JE: LIke you said earlier, you wanted to bring to life more diverse worlds, which you’ve definitely achieved. The voice acting in Kubo is phenomenal, especially with the inclusion of actors like George Takei and Cary-Hiroyuki Tagawa. With the recent outcry in Hollywood for more diversity, especially in casting Asian actors, what was your choice behind not casting only Japanese or Japanese-American actors?
TK: It’s a great question and it’s an important issue. The process of casting is opaque, but I’ll try to demystify as best I can. I think it’s important to note that animation acting and live-action acting are entirely different things with different considerations. In a live-action film, what an actor looks like is as important, if not more so, than what they sound like. Someone’s physical appearance, age or gender or racial or ethnic background can be character defining qualities in a live-action film. In animation, what an actor provides is different. There are two parts to their performances. There is what you see and what you hear. So an actor’s background, in animation, isn’t as important as the performance they give or how well they fit the character we’re trying to create. There are some terrific actors out there that just make terrible voice actors. When you look at all of our films, we’ve often cast actors that don’t look anything like their characters and come from completely different backgrounds, but were perfect for what we needed. With all that said, I fully believe that inclusion and representation matters. Which is why, when you look at all of our films, we’ve made sure that we’ve had diverse casting, and I think the same can be said about Kubo as well. We have an absolutely outstanding cast from all over the world and all manner of life experiences, including a couple of amazing actors of Japanese ancestry, and I’m proud of that. I do think it makes the film better.
JE: So what do you think other filmmakers can do to help fight the diversity problem in Hollywood?
TK: I think the conversation we’ve seen kind of raging in our society about diversity in casting is a subset of a larger issue about diversity in film more broadly. It’s a hugely important issue, and I’m very glad it is being talked about, but the thing that saddens me is that it’s being done in a very simplistic, binary way that reduces it to a hashtag, effectively. That makes us miss it for its complexity. From my point of view, diversity encompasses the seen and unseen characteristics and experiences that make us who we are and make us unique. There are those things that everyone can see, like someone’s age or gender or ethnic or racial background, and then there are those things that are under the surface that we can’t see, like someone’s faith or world view, or sexual or gender identity. I think that all those things combined are what make us unique and make us who we are and make us diverse.
As an industry, we do struggle with that. I think the fundamental issue comes in the lack of diversity of thought and perspective and imagination. We see the kinds of movies made where film after film, the same stories are being told and the same kinds of characters are being portrayed. It becomes an echo chamber where will live in an era of franchises and brands and sequels and prequels and reboots are good for the bottom line, but it limits the kinds of stories you can tell. It doesn’t showcase the diversity of human experience. Historically, Hollywood has not been kind to divergent points of view. That’s actually something we experienced quite from the start.
When we made Coraline, I figured that we had all the key ingredients for a film that everyone would line up to work with us on. We met with virtually all the studios in Hollywood and we got nothing but rejections. It was like high school all over again. The refrain we kept hearing over and over again was that we could not have an animated film with a female protagonist, unless she’s a princess. Luckily, we found a great partner with Focus. The next film we did [Paranorman], we had an openly gay lead character. We had calls for boycotts and people rallied against the MPAA to give us a more restrictive rating. The following year, we released a teaser trailer for our next film [The Boxtrolls], which got to the core of what the film was about, which was family. We talked about it in a simple and poetic way in which every kid could understand and we featured same sex couples in the trailer. There were entire theatrical chains that refused to play our trailer because it was too offensive or too provocative for their audiences. The broader issue is that when you look at these things broadly, theses are diverse stories with diverse characters brought to life by diverse artists. It’s important to us and it’s been important to us since the beginning and it will continue to be important to us moving forward.I believe that our approach to casting is a healthy one and I think that when you look at our films historically, and our films down the road, people will see that. We always approach it with sincerity, no cynicism involved and even if people disagree with our casting choices, I hope they respect that
Music and Chilly Tee
JE: You get a sense of the sincerity and unbridled optimism in the film that is accentuated by every nuanced detail, especially the scoring.
TK: The scoring is exceptional. Our guy did a great job.
JE: It was fantastic. It added to the entire experience. You’re also no stranger to the world of music since you had a musical background with Chilly Tee.
TK: (big laughter)
JE: So do you still write music?
TK: No, not really. I play music. I’ve loved music my whole life and it’s been such a huge part of my life. I think that music, just like any other great art, can speak to something that’s inside of us that we don’t even fully understand. Often times, we have such keenly felt emotions that we can’t really articulate, and music is the thing that gives voice to those emotions. I’ve been a musician since I was a kid, and I still am to this day. I still play music, but now I run a business and I have a family, so there’s only so much time in your life.
JE: So is that a ‘no’ on a second Chilly Tee album anytime soon?
TK: Maybe I’ll do a comeback and take this show on the road after the movie.
JE: How about making a musical film?
TK: When we talk about the different types of movies that we’d want to make, I’d love one day for LAIKA to do a musical. Music is such a huge part of this movie [Kubo] and such a huge part of this character, and is more important in the film than anything we’ve ever done. Kubo is an artist, a storyteller and a musician, and basically an animator. It was fairly deep in the process when I realized this kid was me. He’s a proxy for me. I love music and it’s such an important part of my life and in our movies that I would love one day to do a complete musical.
Moongirl and LAIKA Sequels
JE: While we’re strolling down memory lane, I recently rewatched your short Moongirl. It’s full of ideas and potential for expanding the world. Do you think you would ever make a feature length film out of it?
TK: No. I can say that with complete conviction and certainty because i love that story and I think there was some mythology we developed that can move beyond that. The thing about the way we make movies is that we always to tell new and original stories. Like, this is the Kubo universe and this is our story about this kid and this world and these characters, and now that’s done and we move on to the next thing. As sad as that can make me at times to leave that world behind, it still exists and it can be part of people’s lives. I’m not interested in making sequels and I can appreciate that that’s a rarity in this business.
JE: On behalf of film viewers everywhere, I’d like to thank you for that approach.
TK: Look, there are legitimate business reasons behind it, and there can be great sequels. The Godfather 2 is as good a film as any to have ever been made. [Star Wars V] The Empire Strikes Back is an extraordinarily good film, so obviously there are exceptions to the rule. I think by and large, sequels are watered-down versions of the original.
JE: They’re also very limiting and constrictive.
TK: Yeah. See, the way I approach a movie is that I set out tell a story on the most meaningful moment in a person’s life. Otherwise, why are we going to go watch this thing if it’s something that doesn’t really matter or has any significance behind it. What is a sequel then? The second most meaningful experience in their life? Do you just crank up the volume just so it becomes crazy sensory overload? I think we see that in a lot of sequels, but I’m just not interested in making those kind of movies. I want them to have resonance and I want them to have meaning. That’s why I’m not at all interested in a Kubo 2. Now, there might be a property that we take on in the future with a big story that might warrant multiple films, but until that happens, we’re not interested in making sequels.
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