TV Review: Lucifer – “Wingman”

  • MBH

    Her ex’s name is Dan not Keviin

    • Catherine

      I was thinking this as I read it. Kevin is the name of the actor who plays Dan.

  • 123Geoff

    This is a great show with wonderful acting by all. There is a question running through my mind that perhaps someone will be able to answer. Amenadiel comes to the conclusion that what Lucifer seeks is free will. However, Lucifer rebelled against his father originally and then simply left hell to live on earth. To me this indicates that he has always had free will. Is Samiel/Lucifer special? Was he given free will from the beginning that other angels do not possess? Or do all angels have free will but like Amenadiel they just do not know that they have it?

    • Seattle_bound

      Biblically, God gives free will to all because forced adoration is not adoration at all.
      As for the show … I interpret as Lucifer came to earth within his rhealm of duties and went back and forth, but this time he refused to return in the depths of hell’s eternal punishment. The reason is yes rebellion.
      Lucifer, was at one point the highest (or one of the highest) ranking angels in heaven but began to covet power and had a battle in heave with God who bannished him (and those who followed him) from heaven. I don’t recall off hand which Old Testament book mentions this, though.

    • Cadiva

      In the comics, as opposed to Judao/Christian mythology, free will doesn’t exist, God has pre-ordained everyone’s fate and it is this which Lucifer rebels against.

      • 123Geoff

        Thank you for clarifying the comic version. However, if Lucifer can rebel in the show or perhaps the comics does that not mean he has free will? Is not the act of rebellion an act of free will?

        • Cadiva

          Lucifer has free will, he wants the rest of humanity to have it also, not to be bound by God’s pre-ordained Will.

          • 123Geoff

            With regard to the logic of the show: Why then does Amenadiel come to the conclusion that by burning the wings and becoming somewhat mortal that Lucifer’s intention is to seek free will if he already has free will? The reaction by Amenadiel suggests that he (Amenadiel) does not have free will.

          • Cadiva

            I guess because they’re not following the comic books directly?
            Or because Amenedial is just dropping a bit of exposition as to what Lucifer’s always been rebelling against is the lack of free will imposed by God in general?

            I don’t think they’ve made it clear yet but I don’t think it should be taken as Lucifer and Amenedial don’t have free will given his actions at the end with Malcolm.

          • 123Geoff

            Yes it appears that Amenadiel has restored the life of Malcolm for his own somewhat nefarious reasons, (to get Lucifer back to hell) which suggests that Amenadiel has free will. Thank you. Perhaps consistency in plot and topic are a little much to ask from the writers of the show. Yes we will have to see how this develops.

  • trejon pearson

    It’s pretty obvious Dan is the dirty cop right?

  • 123Geoff

    Thank you for that well written and thoughtful message! Let me cogitate further. Such seemingly does not explain to me why Amenadiel comes to the conclusion that what Lucifer seeks is “free will”. I think we both agree that Lucifer has “free will” and would continue to have it whether he is in the angelic or a somewhat mortal form.

    • SamsaraGuru

      Based on the latest episode where Lucifer got his wings!

      I am wondering if perhaps Amenadiel because of his desperation isn’t letting himself indulge in a uniquely human quality of forcing, trying to overlay the way he wants the world to work – despite the fact a paradigm doesn’t square with reality – on the explanation of why Lucifer would choose to give up his rule of hell?

      After all, what is free will but the ability to choose to make a mistake even if we are told it is a mistake, and then hopefully learn from our mistake it was – or not (out of which course of action incidentally has come and comes all new human discoveries!) – it is always a fine line we walk. Leaders and adventurers quite often come back dead instead of triumphant.

      If angels possess free will (do you ever feel like we are back in medieval times arguing over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin? lol), but if they are truly free to think – then they are also vulnerable to making mistakes and/or deluding themselves.

      It will be interesting to see how the writers evolve this line of the story.

      Personally, I LOVE this show. It and Blacklist are my two favorites and I must say that if someone said, “You can only ever again watch one- I would choose Lucifer. Much as I watch Blacklist for much the same reason – to see the lead character just be their character irrespective of Blacklists even more unbelievable than Lucifer premise.

      • 123Geoff

        Thank you. Yes, I believe you hit the nail on the head. Angels have the ability to exercise free will but choose not to do so. By contrast then Lucifer and one third of the angels that joined him in rebellion chose to exercise free will. This is an interesting theological concept that would transcend the Fox Lucifer series but would answer the question posed. Yes this is my favorite show as well. All of the characters are well cast and are very believable in their roles. I hope we see more of Maze. She is the one that betrayed Lucifer in giving the information to Amenadiel. I am fairly certain Lucifer did not share that type of information with his therapist… there would be no need.

        • SamsaraGuru

          You have taken what I said to the next step. Let’s try this on for size.

          If Amenadiel and the angels that didn’t at first choose to use their free will have always looked down upon (literally and figuratively) Lucifer and the fallen angels who followed him, then it could well be that Amenadiel still doesn’t fully recognize – and accept – his own free will, and thus is still viewing Lucifer as being “bad” and doing what Father doesn’t like (being the good little boy who always does what Daddy/Mommy says!).

          So, he doesn’t even now fully understand Lucifer chafing at the bit at being held back by having to obey strictures placed upon him by good ol Dad. Thus, his characterization – mis-characterization – of Lucifer’s desire simply to be free to express himself and live his own life – as seeking free will.

          Amenadiel still does not want to be free to think for himself; thus he can’t imagine anyone wanting to do so. As I am sure you know, this not wanting to think for oneself is an affliction that most of humanity is more than happy to be afflicted with as well.

          But, I digress.

          Maze is truly gorgeous. She almost makes me wish – until my senses thankfully return – that I were not gayer than springtime!

          Tom Ellis – is THE personification of urbane and debonair and the second he appears I find I am smiling in anticipation of just hearing the smooth, dulcet tones of his voice and whatever wonderful lines he is about to deliver.

          And yes, the rest of the cast is perfect as well – the psychologist, in the pilot when they first met, was hysterical and, the “Trixie – that’s a hooker’s name” sequence was truly masterful and exquisite.

          This is what good writing and acting are about. Just as with a movie like Gran Torino with Clint Eastwood, demonstrates, when you have intelligent, fun, meaningful dialogue coupled with characters you come to love all melded together beautifully – you don’t need 150 million dollars worth of special effects to keep one interested. As I know you know, mon ami.

  • Seattle_bound

    I never said they don’t. And I don’t see this in the show either. Not sure which part of what you get that notion from.

    • 123Geoff

      Amenadiel comes to the conclusion based on his perception, that what Lucifer seeks is free will (beach scene). As such, the statement by Amenadiel indicates that he and Lucifer do not have free will. This may be an error in logic by the writers of the script. Actually, I have a suspicion that Lucifer is not telling the entire truth about becoming human and that he only permits himself to have human frailties when it suits his needs.